More on Phil Donahue, an Atheist and a Fundamentalist
    I believe that "safety" that most of us cling to isn't safe at all. It's an illusion that we are safe. Safe from what? To me, and to the hundreds of people I have interviewed, and the thousands that my colleagues have interviewed – the only part of us that is "safe" is our Soul.

    Our Soul is the part of our self that goes on after our body and our brain/mind dies. Our brain/mind is terrified of death because it does die with our body – But our Soul (or what Charlie calls "Our Child Within") isn't afraid to die because it knows it is eternal. It was here before we were born and it will continue after we die (Much more about this in The Natural Soul )

    When I debate debunkers, they are in their brain/mind and I am trying to tell them about our Souls. Their Souls, their Child Within is asleep. We are speaking in two different languages.

    The first time I was on Larry King Live, a physician, a neurologist from Baltimore debated me. He was an "expert" on death and dying but limited to observing it in ICU. He repeated continuously that there is nothing after we die.

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On the Phil Donahue Show
He politely let me know how naïve he thought I was. During the last commercial break I said to him, "When you die you will experience what I am describing and then you'll know that what I am saying is the truth." His answer to me was sad. He was deeply sad. He said, "No. Nothing good ever happens to me…"

Back then at that moment in 1988, I realized that there is no way we can ever change any one's mind until they open up and are ready to hear something else besides their own narrow world view.

And on the next page, I have a final memory from that day on the Phil Donahue Show.