Phil Donahue, an Atheist and a Fundamentalist

Here I am with Phil Donahue. The one hour show had just ended and I remember (from the look on my face) that it was a tough one.

I was on with the president of a National Atheists Association and a cardiologist who had just written a book saying that all near-death experiences are the "devil" in disguise.

In other words, this fellow actually believed that "Lucifer" was disguising himself as "The Light" and fooling all of us "naive" people who thought we were with "God!"

Shortly after this hug from Phil, I was standing outside waiting for the limo when the other guest Expert – the Atheistic President stood next to me, I told him what I thought and couldn't say on TV and he answered with, "That's exactly what my wife always tells me!" I bet she enjoyed me on that show!

What do I think of all the debunkers I've debated?

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On the Phil Donahue Show

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.There's nothing I can say that will change their minds. We can't change anyone's "mind."

People have to have an experience of their own. Or they have to be close to someone who has the experience and then they have to open up to take in what that experiencer has to say or they need to have humility. People have to be ready to want to expand their worldview.

Unfortunately, a lot of people need to hold on to a narrow worldview in order for them to feel safe.